Jordin Sparks Dropped by 19 Management?

I posted this in another thread, but my thought is that if this was some deal Jordin worked out ahead of time (the option to sever after a year) then good for her. I’m not even sure that is a possibility given the strict contracts 19 is known for, but you never know–her negotiations did take awhile.

If it’s 19M dropping Jordin then I’m perplexed. Her album is nearly platinum, No Air was one of the biggest hits of this year and she’s had 3 top 5 CHR hits in a row. Why they would drop her on the cusp of what could be a much better-selling album (not to mention a better album given that she has time to work on it now) is beyond me. If 19M really dropped her as opposed to vice versa then it would make me suspect that 19 is either in some sort of financial bind or there’s some movement within the ranks that is causing upheaval. Finances would explain why they need to restrict the number of clients they have.

Either that or they’re just stupid.

Maybe 19 wants to concentrate on just one person at a time, or maybe they are overspending that they have no more money for the others. dunno, but strange since Jordin is doing well. she’ll be fine.

Maybe 19 wants to concentrate on just one person at a time, or maybe they are overspending that they have no more money for the others. dunno, but strange since Jordin is doing well. sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be fine.

If you think about it, Jordin’s the lowest selling person on their roster–album sales that is. Maybe that’s what they care about. Maybe they didn’t think their piece of pie was big enough. They dropped Fantasia, now they’re dropping Jordin. They’re keeping Carrie and Daughtry, and they’ve just begun with Cook. I think 19M overspends; that could be part of the problem.

But you know, like I said, if this was 19M’s decision and not some sort of option out that Jordin had written in, then it’s extremely short-sighted.

Jordin is doing well relative to a declining industry, that does not mean she is making enough cash to be worth 19′s efforts. Yeah, she’s had hits and is almost platinum, but many of those album sales are at $7.99. Jive might spend their money wisely, but that still doesn’t leave much for 19′s cut. There needs to be more beyond the music to really bring in the money. Rhianna isn’t selling clothes just because she’s really interested in fashion. At this point in the music industry it seems you need to make music in order to get popular enough to endorse or sell something else to really make money. Is she doing that? (I honestly don’t know, I don’t follow her.) If the answer is no, then they probably let her go.

Jive might spend their money wisely, but that still doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t leave much for 19à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s cut. There needs to be more beyond the music to really bring in the money. Rhianna isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling clothes just because sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s really interested in fashion. At this point in the music industry it seems you need to make music in order to get popular enough to endorse or sell something else to really make money. Is she doing that? (I honestly donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t follow her.) If the answer is no, then they probably let her go.

Actually, I think Jordin is coming out with a line of clothing.

What’s weird is that in my post above, I mentioned that I think 19M overspends. They’re doing it right now with Cook. Some of the promotion is free; some of it is really expensive. And I think 19 is footing most of the promotional bill.

Jive is good about money, so Jordin is lucky she’s with them. Jive doesn’t push albums as hard because they know how to make money off of singles and the album sales that do come in. A lot of their artists sell exactly the same way as Jordin, yet they’re extremely successful.

But if 19M overspent on Jordin’s promotion to begin with (and I didn’t notice that, but maybe they did), then they just didn’t “get” the type of artist Jordin is. So that’s too bad on them. They could make money off of her–maybe it’s just that they don’t know how.

Jlyn: I think I read somewhere that Jordin has some winter wear deal going on. If indeed she is dropped because of low album sales, that is shortsighted. oh well Jordin is better off somewhere else.

Is Kelly Clarkson still with 19 management? I don’t remember. if it is album sales, I guess only rock and country clients will stay there.

Rhianna isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling clothes just because sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s really interested in fashion.

Another great example is Gwen Stefani. Her empire was created by selling her brand. It’s been reported that the bulk of her income is generated by her brand not by her music. The music is just the fun part.

Jordin could have been marketed differently as well, much like Disney markets their young stars, which would have sold more records.

The good thing is that she’s still popular and she’s still young – she just needs the right representation.

I remember last year when there was silence regarding Jordin and Blake being signed there were rumors that Jordin’s dad was making negotiations dificult. I wouldnt be surprised if something was put in there for a year limit with 19M. Isn’t this week a year her album came out?

Whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s weird is that in my post above, I mentioned that I think 19M overspends. Theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re doing it right now with Cook. Some of the promotion is free; some of it is really expensive. And I think 19 is footing most of the promotional bill.

But doesn’t the record label spend the money on promotion? I know in his case the party/concert at the Hard Rock the other night was RCA’s doing because their logo was all over the promotional posters and DC thanked them and the Hard Rock on stage when mentioning how excited he was to be playing there. No mention of 19 at all. I thought in the case of management they get a piece of the action when money is made..?

Is Kelly Clarkson still with 19 management? I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t remember. if it is album sales, I guess only rock and country clients will stay there.

Kelly hasn’t been with 19M in quite some time.

Jordin will be okay. She’s on a great label and she has a lot of talent. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if 19M dropped her, though. They are notorious for that. It seems more and more that unless the artist can sell multiplatinum albums, he or she becomes a liability to the peeps at 19M. I think it speaks volumes that the only pre-season 7 AI winner still with 19 is Carrie. I hope Cook manages to meet their unusually high expectations or else they’ll chew him up and spit him out like the rest of the winners.

However you spin it, I think this is unfortunate. That is if 19 dropped her. The girl’s songs are on my radio stations on a loop for crying out loud. Clearly her songs are popular. There is something there to build on. It’s one thing when you have an artist that doesn’t chart or sell well. But she has performed well consistently. Granted, I don’t know all the numbers.

But I think she’ll be fine. She has a great voice for pop music. She’s young.

19M is a management company. Jive is a record label. They don’t do the same things. Jive being frugal is good for Jive’s bottom line. It is not necessarily good for the artist or it’s management. More promotion = more popularity = higher Q scores. This gets endorsement deals, TV gigs, higher concert sales, etc – the stuff artists make their money off of now. The management gets large cuts of this, the record company does not (although I think they may be asking for more tour money these days?) It used to be, back in Clives day, that all that popularity equaled album sales so everyone benefitted from the record labels promotion, it doesn’t anymore. Jive figured out that they shouldn’t spend huge wads of cash off of a increasingly smaller margins. Again, that’s good for Jive, but not for the overall appeal of the artist beyond record sales.

ETA: Jordin will probably be better off with a more focused team to manage her. 19M only wants A list it seems. I think Jordin is a solid B, but not the top tier that 19M seems to crave.

I suspect that Jive will drop her within 18 months too. Given the amount of radio play that No Air and Tattoo received ( I happen to believe that Clear Channel plays nothing “for free” but I don’t want to open that can of worms) the albums sales have been disappointing. Single sales/digital downloads is chump change as a revenue stream. When the 99 cents is divided up a “platinum single” brings in a few hundred thousand dollars.

I suspect that the label has spent a ton of money attempting to make Jordin Sparks a star. Moreover, I posit that the next album will see a mere fraction of the total money spent on it that her debut did. This, likely, is just the handwriting on the wall that going forward the Sony/BMG money budgeted for Idols will be spent on The Davids and others.

Jordin’s first week sales were dreadful. Both Davids handily outsold her in a further eroded music market with the economy in the tank. Zomba may continue to keep Jordin’s pop career afloat for a while but the first rat has officially just jumped ship on the H.S.S. Sparks.

But doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the record label spend the money on promotion? I know in his case the party/concert at the Hard Rock the other night was RCAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing because their logo was all over the promotional posters and DC thanked them and the Hard Rock on stage. I thought in the case of management they get a piece of the action when money is made..?

The line gets blurred, but most of the artist promotion is through management; the label will do limited album/single promotion. For example, a concert could fall under RCA’s umbrella. Promotional posters might be RCA’s doing as well.

But anything that has to do with promoting the artist–getting him out there–is the management company. Now, usually that involves a lot of freebie-type promotion (booking on Leno, or some awards show), but I don’t think that 19M is your typical management company because they’re owned by 19, which has a stake in Cook in more than just the musical sense. They need him to succeed as an Idol winner. Cook is American Idol’s promotional tool when American Idol isn’t on the air, whether he likes it or not. I doubt RCA paid for the SNL bid–that’s very rich for RCA, which isn’t exactly on strong financial footing at the moment. Truth is we may never know how the promotional split is working between RCA and 19, but 19 is a lot richer than RCA.

Management takes from the artist, not directly from album or single sales, so what they get is very dependent on what the artist gets. So management has to be very careful with what they spend and how they spend it.

But doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the record label spend the money on promotion? I know in his case the party/concert at the Hard Rock the other night was RCAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing because their logo was all over the promotional posters and DC thanked them and the Hard Rock on stage. I thought in the case of management they get a piece of the action when money is made..?

I think so.

Plus, the recording arm of 19E is 19R. Jordin is still with them–they will continue to release her records.

Kelly left 19M for the Firm quite awhile ago. Last year, she left the Firm for Reba McEntire’s husband’s management company.

This, likely, is just the handwriting on the wall that going forward the Sony/BMG money budgeted for Idols will be spent on The Davids and others.

Sony/BMG has nothing to do with 19M. And each label under the Sony/BMG umbrella spends in different ways.

Jive hasn’t dropped an artist in a long while. And, like I said, a lot of their artists sell like Jordin does. They know how to make money off of an artist like Jordin.

Plus, labels take money directly up front. Management takes money off the back end. Jive is making a lot more money off of Jordin than 19M.

Sony/BMG is the parent company that controls all things Idol. It is the company whose Simon’s contract is with and they write all the cheques. I think people get too wrapped up in the Jive/RCA/Hickory Records and … they are all tentacles of the same organism. Time will tell what happens with Jordin, I don’t perceive her as a pop star but perhaps some of her fans do. 19M ( & E and all the other letters) needs a few “viable stars” out there to make American Idol seem like is is a superstar creation vehicle and they willing to take losses on the music end to make that happen but the cash cow is the television show.

^^ How does three top 5 CHR hits and one of the biggest selling singles of the year not qualify Jordin as a pop star? She can probably be certified platinum on her album as well.

Yeah I don’t remember Jive dropping an artist.

Thanks soundscene. One more question though (sorry if I’m sounding dense!)

I doubt RCA paid for the SNL bidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s very rich for RCA, which isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t exactly on strong financial footing at the moment. Truth is we may never know how the promotional split is working between RCA and 19, but 19 is a lot richer than RCA.

What do you mean by SNL bid? You have to pay to get someone on SNL?! If that’s the case I would have thought 19 would try and Daughtry on there earlier if anything considering how big they are.

Exactly, how can 19M walk away from a platinum selling superstar like that when they have her locked under contract. It is because the television show makes enough money to make hits for anyone that 19 wants hits for and they don’t need Jordin to sell anymore than a “platinum debut” to declare victory. They are ready to turn the page on the Jordin Sparks experiment.

The line gets blurred, but most of the artist promotion is through management; the label will do limited album/single promotion. For example, a concert could fall under RCAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s umbrella. Promotional posters might be RCAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing as well.

Hmm, interesting. What about things like radio promotion (mediabase ads, etc.)? Also, what does that mean, limited album/single promotion? So like Google ads, album ads, TV commercials, music videos etc.? Who pays for that?

I’m surprised because Jordin has a pretty decent career going. Either Jordin wanted a change or 19 isn’t making enough money from endorsements, tours, etc. to make it worthwhile for them. I think the only ones they manage now are Carrie, Daughtry, Cook and Pickler.

By the way, I read Phil Stacey was dropped by Lyric Records and Clay and RCA have parted company as well. (Maybe this is just a rumor). And seeing Hickory up there with Jive and RCA is kind of silly. It has one artist and is under Sony/ATV which is a different company. (I know they have the same name but it’s true.)

WOW it certainly does look like an one year deal doesn’t it?

Well Clay and Kelly had to sue to leave 19M, so it’s not so bad getting dropped by them I suppose. They didn’t treat Jordin badly, she just performed on Australian Idol a few weeks ago.

But I’m not surprised. She might be underperforming on tickets, where the real money lies. Selling 1 million singles probably gets her less than…say, what Coldplay get for one concert. I don’t really know about Jordin, let’s take Katy Perry as an example. She can sell as many singles as…she does, and I love all three of them(yes I do, sorry…), but, a)other than those 3 songs, that album is crap. b)She can’t sing live, it’s like watching a drunk sister karaoke, hideously. I admire those who can suffer through a whole concert of her. So I doubt she makes much money. Since I also love Rihanna(sorry!), I’m glad she got that Gucci deal.

RCA must be going nuts for Kings of Leon right now, although they’re nowhere to be found on Top40. They sold out 85,000 seats for their 2 UK show in a few minutes, and tour with U2. As Billie Joe says, when an American band made it in UK, they f*cking made it.

Gwen, LOL, the other day we said she and Fergie were “rich white women singing about how rich they are”.

19M seems to have the highest bar of all the acts…unless Jordin walked away from them?

no waaaaaaaay

My guess is that they look at pretty much ever past idol (with probably the exception of ms clarkson) and see that idol alum album sales always drop after their debut…but jordin has had 3 hits- pretty damn big hits. makes no sense if she was dropped.

Hmmm….an interesting turn of events. On the one hand, it’s a bit surprising because Jordin was doing solid business. But not nearly as much business as Carrie, Kelly or Daughtry.

On the other hand, 19E never have been in it for the long haul for their artists. They tend the milk an artist for as much as they can then spit them out when the well runs dry.

The article seems to read that 19E dumped her and not vice versa.

Makes you wonder what’s considered “good enough” for 19E. Should the current idol be watching their back when the next winner is crowned if they haven’t sold multi-platinum by then?

I’m going to agree with the posters that say that Jordin probably had it in her contract that she was allowed to leave after one year..

All the best to Jordin!

Maybe it’s just the climate of things now. And I clearly don’t know the ins and out of the industry like others here. It just strikes me as sad that an artist who has steadily been adding hits to her resume and has hit the platinum sales mark for her album (she’s gotta be close or will get there soon) is not good enough. If Carrie and Daughtry type success is the only type they’ll accept, well, uh, those are tough marks to hit.

Sorry, I’m still stuck on those blurred lines between what the label pays for, and what 19M shells out.

RCA must be going nuts for Kings of Leon right now, although theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re nowhere to be found on Top40. They sold out 85,000 seats for their 2 UK show in a few minutes, and tour with U2.

So am I interpreting correctly that both the label and management make money on concert sales? The label gets some sort of upfront profit, and then management gets a cut of whatever the artist gets…?

^I don’t really know but I think the label has to get a part of it(tour and merchandise), can’t see why not…

I don’t really think there’s a shred of truth but I’m putting it out there. What if she’s just too much trouble than her current or future worth? I mean, what if underneath the perfect smile is a witch worthy of all the stepmothers that every Disney princess has suffered under?

I’ve seen the trend of the speculation that 19M is stupid and short-sighted for giving up Jordin — which may be true. But what if it’s just too much of a hassle to deal with her and her father? All this trouble and maybe, for relatively little return. Maybe, they just gave up and let someone handle her and Daddy.

Rueben is still with 19 M. I’m guessing this has a lot to do with her parents, not sales. But who knows?

I think it speaks volumes that the only pre-season 7 AI winner still with 19 is Carrie.

Isn’t Ruben still being managed by 19? I know he was still with 19M even after he parted ways with J Records.

I suspect that Jive will drop her within 18 months too.

Not happening. 19M might not want her, but Jive isn’t going to let her go after the success that she’s had so far.

I don’t know. I heard Fantasia was dropped because she was too difficult and not worth all the trouble.

American Idol in the past really was not into getting young singers untill Disney started having great success again with Hannah and The Jonas Brothers in the words from Joe Biden”had an epithamy ” about young singers had allot to do with DO RE ME. Jordan and to some extent Daivd A is thier answere and secretly thier hoping for that kind of sucess right away the problem these are diferent artist but the bigwigs see is $$$$.. I dislike it but businesses look out for thier own bottom especially some excutives. I hope this is off the mark….

What the heck do I know I still deciding whether to do to “Twillight” or not.Ok also watched too much CNN lately..

But Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not surprised. She might be underperforming on tickets, where the real money lies.

Very good point. I wonder how her ticket sales were? She went on tour with Alicia Keys this spring, and then with Jesse McCartney over the summer. 19M isn’t going to make a pile of dough from her albums–the money is in the tours and merchandising.

So am I interpreting correctly that both the label and management make money on concert sales? The label gets some sort of upfront profit, and then management gets a cut of whatever the artist getsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦?

In the past, the label did not get a cut of the concert receipts. Lately, though, as profits from record sales have decreased, labels have been trying to get a cut of touring profits.

Whether the label is getting a cut of Jordin’s concert receipts has to do with the contract she signed with them.

Okay, I’m confused.

Does “terminated” necessarily mean she was dropped? Or, could it mean that she did the “dropping”?

Exactly, Gwen. I’m not sure if she was dropped, dropped them, or they mutually parted ways. I would, however, be pretty shocked if Jive dumped her before her second album.

Does à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“terminatedà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  necessarily mean she was dropped? Or, could it mean that she did the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“droppingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ?

The blurb doesn’t say that they “parted ways” but that 19E terminated their relationship, which literally means they ended it. But who knows.

Yeah, the wording sounds like it was 19E that did the droppiing. “Terminated” is harsh word. If they were interested in softening the blow, they would have said something like “we’ve mutually decided to part ways”.

Oh, okay. I just wondered.

She had a very slow take-off, but now she seems to be steadily climbing and increasing in popularity. Maybe she felt like she was in a good place to make a move, if that was the case.

That “terminated” makes it seem like someone getting fired from a job, which immediately spins the story in a negative light.

But you’re right. Who knows?

I’m sure we’ll hear more in the coming days.

I am suspicious- Those are the same words the media used for DA, saying 19 dropped him. We know that wasn’t true. I will wait to hear what really happened before I jump to any conclusions.

Jordin has been touring with a couple of other people. Should she be ready soon to tour on her own? Will she ever be ready? I never followed AI until this year, so I don’t know how she is doing.

HDD is kind of a reliable source, though, aren’t they?

I’m thinking it has to do with Simon Fuller having his hands full managing DC. Either they cut Jordin from the roster because they’ve overextended themselves as soundscene said, or Jordin’s team saw that she was going to get knocked down to second tier of priority below DC and Daughtry’s upcoming album and decided to take an out and seek better attention elsewhere.

Jordin certainly did not get the same promotional push last year that David is getting now. I’m not even sure it was on par with Archie’s (and remember, she won her year.) If she sees she can do better outside 19′s stranglehold, then why not?

I *don’t* think it has anything to do with her viability as a pop star. Her career is only going up from here imo.

Jordinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s first week sales were dreadful. Both Davids handily outsold her in a further eroded music market with the economy in the tank. Zomba may continue to keep Jordinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s pop career afloat for a while but the first rat has officially just jumped ship on the H.S.S. Sparks.

I’m not sure I can buy that argument. If they’d kicked her to the curb last year because her poor first week sales, I could understand it. But neither 19M or Jive did that. 19Alphabet said nothing but nice things about her and had her to sing on the show a couple of times. Jive did its magic and a year later, she has had one of the most downloaded songs ever, three hit songs, an album that’s almost platinum and she’s going to all the awards show. I’d frankly be quite surprised if she isn’t nominated for a Grammy for “No Air” (in the pop collaboration category). Why drop her now? She’s proven that she can start with meager scraps of a fan base and build one up from the ground floor. The first week sales numbers are now a moot point. Her fans are not fickle Idol fans (they are now the much coveted fickle Pop fans).

If she has been dropped from 19M, there must be some kind of reason, but I don’t think it’s those first week numbers.

Sony/BMG is the parent company that controls all things Idol.

Sony/BMG no longer exists. Idols have alwasy signed under the BMG wing of Sony/BMG, but BMG sold it’s interest in the company to Sony earlier this year. It’s now just Sony.

So am I interpreting correctly that both the label and management make money on concert sales? The label gets some sort of upfront profit, and then management gets a cut of whatever the artist getsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦?

If a label as a 360 deal, they get a cut from everything (traditionally, they just get money from album/single sales). Rumours were, 19Alphabet has been pushing for 360 deals. Management gets a cut of everything the person earns. Since artists traditionally earn more from touring, management earns more when they tour. Artists don’t make much money when they open for somebody else (they may even pay to get to be the opening act). Headliners make all the money. I don’t think Jordin has been headlining. 19M is also rumoured to take huge percentages (some say 50%) so being dropped by them might not be a bad thing. From what I’ve seen, most true management firms get dropped. They don’t drop. If the artist is a flop it’s partially the management’s fault. It’s their job to advise and promote the artist so they are not a flop. Many good management firm won’t even have the artist sign a contract. It’s part of the sale. They “know” they are so good, nobody would want to leave them. 19M wouldn’t have much of a stable if it weren’t for Idols (and the Beckhams/Spice Girls). If they were that great, they would be able to get more high profile clients from elsewhere. JMHO.

I can’t help but wonder if this might not work out for the best for her. I suspect that there are management teams that specialize in marketing for Jordin’s genre and audience.

I think she is great. Maybe it took her a long time to go platinum but I find her stable.. She is radio-ready and even listeners who may not be a fan will like listening to her music

What do you mean by SNL bid? You have to pay to get someone on SNL?! If thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the case I would have thought 19 would try and Daughtry on there earlier if anything considering how big they are.

I’ve heard this a few places, but nobody from NBC has ever told me this directly, so keep that in mind. SNL has a bid process for artists to appear on the show. It’s a hot ticket–bands/artists want it… a lot. So SNL isn’t just giving out the opportunity for free (I suppose if Lorne Michaels really loved a band, or there was a lot of buzz surrounding an act, they may get the spot for free, but I heard that wasn’t the usual scenario). I actually heard that Daughtry did have a bid in last year but got outbid. So there was an attempt.

No matter whether Cook won Idol or not, the fact is that he got a prime, highly coveted spot on SNL when the show was at a peak. And he did so without an album out and with almost no buzz going into it (5 months after Idol, mind you, and a single not yet doing much). I doubt he got that for free. So what I heard about the bid process sounds about right. There’s a reason why Clay and Kelly didn’t perform on SNL until the year following their Idol runs (or the year after, can’t recall).

But, yeah, anyway, I still think 19M made a bad choice. Jordin may not be a goldmine, but she’s good business if they knew how to handle her. I just don’t think they do, or that they care to learn how.

She’s better off–somebody will grab her up, of that I’m sure. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s already got a management firm lined up.

Where does this bid rumor start? I’ve never heard of it, and it’s not like SNL always has pop artists that sell millions, they usually don’t. If it’s all about bidding, Clay and Kelly could get there whenever they want to, don’t they? And it’s not like DAUGHTRY only had one week they could “bid in”.

Jordin clothes line

Was NOT expecting this. Weird.

I really like her. She’s talented and sets great example for teen girls in many ways. I hope she keeps going strong.

Hmmm…since this is dealing with management, I’m not sure how to react. Just as long as she stays with her RECORD label. Consecutive top 20 hits is no joke.

By the way, I read Phil Stacey was dropped by Lyric Records and Clay and RCA have parted company as well. (Maybe this is just a rumor).

billboard.biz says that Phil “exited Nashville-based Lyric Street Records.” I don’t know if that means they dropped him, or he left them. He did tell some fans at a recent appearance that he was not with them any more. He also said in a recent TV appearance that he was doing a “Christian venture,” and he told a fan that he was going to do a Gospel album and include “Old Glory” on it. I am looking forward to what will be coming up for him, as I think he is awesome and has won fans at his appearances. He has really kept a very busy schedule, with his latest appearances being at churches; fundraisers; the 83rd birthday of the Opry; the Inspirational Country Music Awards; the Michael W. Smith tribute, and appearances with the Navy in his capacity as a reservist. He is now in Italy with the Navy and his wife, with whom he is celebrating his 10th wedding anniversary. Upon returning, one of his appearances will be as the grand marshal for the 56th annual Nashville Christmas Parade, where he will be performing as well.

I don’t know, but as good as Jording is doing, can she keep it up? She has had 3 strong singles and she only sold close to 1 million albums. Chances are she will sell a lot less next time. If you look into the future she does not seem like someone who is going to keep bringing the money.

Is Kelly Clarkson the only Idol who’s sophomore CD outperformed her freshman release?

Is Kelly Clarkson the only Idol whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sophomore CD outperformed her freshman release?

I think so. Though it could be argued that while Carrie has sold less, she has remained at the top relative to the other artists in her genre, especially taking into account the overall decline in record sales. It will be interesting to see what happens with Daughtry.

I am at a loss to explain why 19 would drop Jordin. She’s one of the few acts (close to) going platinum right now. It may not seem like much but she’s at the top of the pack today. Is she having problem getting endorsements or something? Does she want to go in a different direction on her next album? I mean, they kept Rueben, why not her? The mind boggles. It has to be her decision, not theirs. Otherwise I just can’t explain it.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know, but as good as Jording is doing, can she keep it up? She has had 3 strong singles and she only sold close to 1 million albums. Chances are she will sell a lot less next time. If you look into the future she does not seem like someone who is going to keep bringing the money.

But that is the standard right now isn ´t it… albums don ´t sell like it used to…

I heard they were angry after she called them all sl*ts.

Seriously though, strange move but she’s going to be fine! I like her more now than when she was on idol.

I heard they were angry after she called them all sl*ts.

lol… I agree Jordin will be just fine.. maybe she can go to Azzof with Archie… they both are so cute together…

I think Jordin did have a slow start in the beginning and I read somewhere that 19 was surprised she didn’t catch on right away. As an American Idol winner, they would be committed to her for only a year. Jive has done a fantastic job for her. Jive pushes singles more than albums I think and there isn’t that much money to go around selling singles. I found it interesting that she only started to catch on when they paired her with Chris Brown. That got her going on the charts in my opinion but I think that if she didn’t do “No Air” with Chris, she wouldn’t have done as well as she did.

I think that most people will agree that last season was a real bust and A.I. fans probably rank it as the worst season for talent in general. That might be a factor as to management’s decision to terminate her to separate themselves from that “lackluster” season and not have to work so hard to promote an artist even though that artist goes platinum. It took her a long time to get to platinum–wasn’t it close to a year? They want artists who go platinum quickly and put out a new album ASAP and again go platinum and are big box office draws.

I found it interesting that she only started to catch on when they paired her with Chris Brown. That got her going on the charts in my opinion but I think that if she didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t do à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“No Airà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  with Chris, she wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have done as well as she did.

Folks keep saying this, but I have to disagree. Her first single “Tattoo” did very well. It went platinum, and peaked at #8 on the Billboard Hot 100. It was a huge hit. “No Air” did better, but it was by no means her first success.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know, but as good as Jording is doing, can she keep it up? She has had 3 strong singles and she only sold close to 1 million albums.

“Only sold close to 1 million”?

There is no “only” about selling 1 million. In this market, it’s fantastic. Platinum is considered an achievement for a reason. It seems like people sometimes expect everybody to go platinum. Heck, there is a notable certification before Platinum called Gold. If every album went Gold, they’d change the criteria (like they did a couple of years ago for digital downloads when 100K would get you Gold and 200K would get you Platinum. Imagine if those rules still stood?)

In the past, people would have expected an Idol winner to go Platinum, but times have changed. Jordin started with little fan base and grew one. That’s what labels like to see. These front loaded Idol sales worry them because it indicates a fad that will be over once a new Idol is crowned. Sustained sales and growing fan bases are good signs.

Jordin will be just fine as long as Jive keeps giving her good songs for the new album. She’s doing well with her current album, and I’d argue that there are very few good songs on it. I wonder if she’ll start writing for her second, since it’s not as ideal to rely on others to give you good material… I think she has a great pop voice, but is she a good musician?

Also, people keep mentioning Jordin may have had a one-year contract. I’m confused– DC signed with 19M right after winning in May/June, right? So wouldn’t one year for Jordin be over the summer rather than mid-November?

There is no à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“onlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  about selling 1 million.

Selling 1 million is great and in these days not many can do it. But how many artists have 3 hit singles like she had? Not many. I think for someone with those 3 big hits I’d expect more album sales. I’m not even talking about her beeing an Idol winner, but a singer with 3 songs that were that huge.
Of course this is all speculation, but she does not seem to be an artits with staying power.

I do think Jordin was helped by Chris Brown, but if No Air weren’t on the album, Freeze would do just fine as a second single. However the rumored single Permanent Monday would be another story… WTF why does she even have a song that sounds like an Idol coronation song on her album..

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve heard this a few places, but nobody from NBC has ever told me this directly, so keep that in mind. SNL has a bid process for artists to appear on the show. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a hot ticketà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’bands/artists want ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ a lot. So SNL isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t just giving out the opportunity for free (I suppose if Lorne Michaels really loved a band, or there was a lot of buzz surrounding an act, they may get the spot for free, but I heard that wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the usual scenario). I actually heard that Daughtry did have a bid in last year but got outbid. So there was an attempt.

This sounds suspiciously like a theory concocted by a disgruntled fan whose favorite hasn’t performed on the show yet. These types of “theories” have a way of eventually transforming into fact as they get passed round and round the internet.

I’m not saying it’s not true–who knows. But for now, I’ll take that bit of information with a grain of salt until it’s proven to be true.

SNL has a lot of indie band-of-the-moment rock acts featured. I doubt their labels had the money to outbid major label darlings every week. But you never know.

I don’t think Platinum is that great for Jordin, here’s why:

1. She was the winner of the biggest show on television with 20 million viewers weekly.

2. Two top ten singles, including an unprecedented duet with an established star.

3. She toured with Alicia Keys, how many first time acts can say that?

4. She has several year-after Idol appearances.

Hell, Taylor Hicks sold 750,000 and RCA didn’t do spit for him…unless you count the saliva in the wad of chewed gum that Simon Cowell instructed an auditioner to stick to Tay ***’s forehead. The handwriting was on the wall during Idols Live 2007, Idol viewers simply didn’t care about that cast, including Jordin. The initial sales were flat out bad, she had Black Friday numbers that were sub-McPhee-in-January.

Assuming a typical sophomore funk on album #2 she will be lucky, and I mean very lucky, to hit gold with two hit singles. Frankly, her goodie two shoes personality and judgmental comments like “sluts” simply grates with many people. I don’t follow her day to day performances but the few I’ve heard, namely the Idol finale, Australian Idol & KISS-FM Cafe, since her “recovery” from vocal chord injury makes the word recovery rather dubious.

Since it was mentioned a bid was put in for Daughtry I did some poking around trying to see if there was any SNL discussion amongst his fans and I came across this for what its worth
http://www.daughtryofficial.com/forum/who-wants-to-see-daughtry-snl
There’s a lot to read through there but unless I’m reading wrong someone that posts there by the name of “RCA Ed” did in fact say they lost their bid trying to get Daughtry on. This is all on the heels of talking about why David got on so soon so it’s interesting.

unless Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m reading wrong someone that posts there by the name of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“RCA Edà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  did in fact say they lost their bid trying to get Daughtry on

Admittedly I’m not a native english speaker but that’s not what I see s/he means.

and secondly, as those of you who watch SNL regularly know all too well, they don’t invite the same artist back every other week, never mind every other season.

I came across this for what its worth
http://www.daughtryofficial.com/forum/who-wants-to-see-daughtry-snl
Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a lot to read through there but unless Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m reading wrong someone that posts there by the name of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“RCA Edà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  did in fact say they lost their bid trying to get Daughtry on.

Is that like the guy who works for CBS who said Cook is set to go platinum plus this week? Heh.

I’m not saying it isn’t true…just that I never take anything I read on the internet at face value.

TV shows like Leno and Letterman have bookers who work with the labels to book their acts. I’ve never heard that they charge for the privilege. Actors get paid union scale to appear on talks show.–I’m not sure about musicians.

It’s possible SNL is such a hot ticket that they charge, but I think there would be other factors that enter the equation, like what kind of ratings draw the act will be etc.

RCA Ed looks legit. That’s how the admins are labeled at DCO. Doesn’t mean he’s that much in the know, though.

Is Blake still with 19M?

It does not seem logical to me that a TV show like SNL would be paid to have artists perform. I just don’t believe it. That could not possibly be legal.

Admittedly Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not a native english speaker but thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not what I see s/he means.

I think Trina is talking about this part:

Just in time! SNL comes back this Spring 09… *wink, wink* We were just wondering why they haven’t appeared BEFORE especially during the peak of the first album. Tons of oppurtunities there. 2 years of missed opportunity actually. Kind of sad that you guys lost the bid for them but you won the bids for the other RCA artists (for plum spots too I might add). Does that mean that RCA was not willing to shelf more money for Daughtry before that’s why RCA lost? Say it ain’t so! Haha, maybe we can pitch in a few hundreds of thousand dollars so you’re sure to win next time? Hey, maybe the extra money can give them the “host” spot instead of just the “musical guest” spot. Haha, I’m just kidding. Well, not really. Anyway, we just think that they deserve it and they’re at equal levels (maybe even more) at the other RCA artists that RCA has booked SNL gigs for. I agree BTW about the emails. They probably won’t do anything much as the guests and hosts are determined by the money exchanged between NBC and the label/management anyway. BTW, as an SNL fanatic, I’m almost sure Carrie appeared two seasons back to back.

Or this:

You submit a bid and the highest bidder gets the gig. Which means evidently RCA doesn’t feel Daughtry is worth the money since they never submitted high enough to be accepted.

And reading those poster in Daughtry made me love more my archies and the poster here at MJS….

Those RCA boards give me a headache so like I said I could have been reading wrong, but it looked to me that before RCA Ed stepped in and posted some people were communicating with him, hence the people saying “sorry you lost the bid” and “thanks for PM’ing Ed” etc. Of course if the word “bid” was used by him in any way even to one person, whether it’s true or not I don’t think that was wise considering the overall feel of that thread is basically “so you spent money on the new guy but not the ones that have sold millions already”. If anything this guy should have worked some damage control. Truthfully the idea of bidding makes no sense to me but who knows. I do think he’s legit, on DC’s board there’s RCAJosh who’s pretty well known and legit.

Those posts were not from RCA_Ed though. Those are from regular old posters feeding off other regular old posters.

“Bid” does not necessarily mean money is involved, just that you put him up to be a performer and they said no.

Like I said, SNL is famous for putting on alot of hot indie band of the moment type acts, and I don’t think those people can pay wads of cash. But maybe that’s just me.

Well those posts weren’t made by the RCA person but mainly by “Deanna”, who I think it’s not very…(hmm finding the right word) credible, since she was encouraging people to write to NBC/SNL, which is such a terrible idea because, you know, those people write jokes for living. I’m pretty sure a “we did try to get him on” by RCA Ed would cause her to post whatever she posted.

^ I really don ´t know,as I ´m reading the post, those were the answer to a chat that took place before those post, yes I agree the poster was very angry… if there is necessary a bid or not to get an artist in SNL I really don ´t know, and we will need more info to know if is true or not…

The teen market for clothes, posters, junk and stuff is being dominated by Miley, Taylor Swift, Rhianna and the casts of Twilight and HSM.
Jordin’s been crowded out of the trinket market.

I think Jordin is going to be OK. I don’t think Jive will drop her, she’s been successful for them. Holding on to her label contract is what’s important. She’ll find new managers without a problem. I suspect she’s got someone lined up already..

Those posts were not from RCA_Ed though. Those are from regular old posters feeding off other regular old posters.

That’s exactly what I was going to say. I skimmed the posts, but I saw the RCA guy using the word “pitch” and the posters using the word “bid”.

Sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll find new managers without a problem.

I think so, too.

Let’s say it this way…

If you work for RCA, fans are angry about the label not “bidding” for a thing. Would you tell them that it’s not the label didn’t win the non-existing bid, but they simply didn’t want the act?

I don’t mean it as the truth, just IMO those fans weren’t given accurate information.

RE: Musical Guests pay to be on SNL

I don’t think so.

Logically, this makes no sense to me.

SNL is a show that relies on it’s reputation. They need a certain street cred. If people are paying to be on the show, that kind of reeks of informercial and there is not a lot of street cred in being an informercial. Featuring interesting indie or high profile acts increases their street cred. Strike 1.

SNL is also a show that relies on ratings. If the musical guest slot is open to the highest bidder, why isn’t Bill Gates Grandma singing on the show (I’m sure she’d love such a gift for her whatever birthday)? If they feature a bunch of musical guests of no interest to the general public, it’s yet another reason for people to stop watching the show. If they feature a bunch of musical guests which are ratings draws (or at least make the viewers feel like they are being introduced to somebody new and interesting), ratings go up. Strike 2.

I have no idea what the ad rate is for SNL. Idol makes almost 1 million dollars for every 30 second ad and a lot of their viewers are the kinds that aren’t in the desirable demographic. During the Palin/McCain episodes, SNL was drawing 15/12 million viewers in a very hard to reach demographic. So, I’m thinking they are making quite a bit of money from ads. Let’s go conservative and guess $200K every 30 seconds. The musical guest is on for like like 8 minutes. The equivalent of 16 thirty second ads. If the labels are paying the ad rate, that’s 3.2M dollars. I don’t think so. I don’t think they’d even pay $200K. Who has money like that to burn in this market? Strike 3. The theory is OUT, in my opinion.

I have no doubt that every manager worth their percentages tries to get their artists on SNL. I’m sure they even send a fruit basket or two to the booking agent. I’m sure SNL doesn’t have to go trolling for guests (though they might make a pitch for some of the extremely high profile ones themselves). But I don’t think they are selling the spot to the highest bidder. For whatever reason (they liked him, they thought he would draw viewers, whatever), Cook was on the show and some other Idols were not. I’m pretty sure he didn’t pay to get on there. It just isn’t logical. IMHO.

The relevance of this debate on RCA bidding or pitching for the SNL gig to 19M’s promo strategy is really confusing me.

We started off talking about 19M and their reputation for overspending and thus expecting big returns, so folks started laying out the differences between what Jive the label and 19M the management spends and makes… but now we’re saying the RCA bidding (which I’m not totally convinced of, btw, and see also Kirsten’s argument above) for gigs is somehow related to 19M overspending on artist promotions? Okay, I know the lines are blurred, but the argument is lost on me. I thought the label and management were separate? If the argument is that 19M is a big spender (compared to Jive the label’s relative frugal ways), then why are we looking at evidence of RCA the label’s “lavish” bids…?

Also, I’m still trying to wrap my brain around which promos the label shells for and which ones management shells for… anyone able to lay it out clearly for me?

Why are we looking at evidence of RCA the labelà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s lavish bidsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦?

Someone please answer this. I would absolutely love to know….

If the argument is that 19M is a big spender (compared to Jive the labelà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s relative frugal ways)

See, you(or we) are lost, Jive is not a management.

^ elisad, that’s exactly what I mean. Not sure if you’re agreeing with me, or if my post was too convoluted– did you see I tried to edit it like 3 times, and it still came out jumbled? Anyway, I guess I’m trying to ask: how did a discussion of 19M’s spending patterns on artists turn into one about how much RCA the label is allegedly spending on Cook for SNL?

Right. The comparison is between a record label and a management company. That’s what has me confused.

Jordin Sparks is still with Jive. She is no longer being managed by 19. Right? So…the recording career isn’t over.

Maybe she was being mismanaged. Maybe they thought she wanted more than they could provide. Either way, it doesn’t look like she’s finished just yet.

sma11ie, of course I agreed with you.

And RCA or 19, um I don’t know which one, has been wrongly blamed about it too many times. When Amazon sent out their very usual spamming emails, when iTunes sent out their emails to those who clicked “alert me”(send me an email alert for all inividuals in my Purchase History), when they set the album pre-order with an immediate download for the single.

I don’t deny David got good promotions, but nothing outrageous, it’s not like they bought half hour airtime on 3 networks. What exactly did they overspend on?

AI’s incestuous little management/record deal always makes things confusing. I think of it like this:

record label – tied to album and related sales/promo
management – tied to artist and related sales/promo

so things like Jordin’s awards ceremony presentations, photo ops at charity events, clothing line, overall image, would fall under management’s interest.

things like Jordin’s single selection/promo, single/album-related performances, touring, fall under label interest.

Obviously there’s overlap, especially with Idols, but management is supposed to look out for the artist’s interest especially when the label is making unreasonable demands — that’s a reason Idols often try to get out of 19M because there’s a conflict of interest when management and label have a business partnership. The artist gets the short end of the stick.

It seems like right now is the time when things are being decided for Jordin’s second album, so if business relationships were going to change this could be a natural time for it to happen.

What exactly did they overspend on?

Cookie will find out when he gets his royalty cheques or not. LOL. I still can’t believe RCA shelled out $200K for Blake’s video. I think there was some fancy accounting going on there.
Artists are often shocked at the “overspending” that goes on (artists should have accounts audit the costs).

RCA does have a reputation for spending a lot on promo. The word on the street why Barry (Jive) got to replace Clive (RCA) as the head of the BMG wing of Sony/BMG is because of Barry’s less risky (read: more frugal) ways. Of course, BMG is gone now, but I think Barry’s still heading up that wing of things for now.

Promo, if effective, is a good thing. It helps to move units.

The problem with promo is that a lot of it has to be paid back by the artist. This is where a good manager/lawyer makes sure that you get a good deal from the label. The label gives the artist X amount to make an album. From that money, they are expected to hire a producer (label gets to approve the producer), record the album and pay for their own living expenses. Once the record is made (and the label likes it), it can be released and promo starts. The label will do some promo on it’s own dime, but other things like the cost of videos are split 50/50 with the artist. The label will also provide some advance funds for a promo band (those guys that play behind the artist on Leno or those radio Jingle Balls (artists do not get paid to do them)) and perhaps for a tour band. Often that money has to be paid back too(get a good lawyer/manager). Once the money starts rolling in, the record label has to be paid back for expenses before the artists makes any money. A good lawyer will make sure that label pays the producer’s percentages (producers often get a flat fee and then a percentage) and later recoups it (some artists get stuck having to pay the producer themselves before they are out of recoupment so that every album sold actualy takes money out of their pocket when they aren’t making any themselves. Get a good lawyer/manager).

Meanwhile, managers are busy setting up tours and endorsement deals and advising and taking their percentage.

Michelle is right in that the Idol deals are typically pretty incestious. The show is run by 19E. You are signed by a 19R/Sony label. And often your manager is 19M. (Get a good lawyer and not one from 19L). Promo costs and responsibilities when the album is first released are always a little fuzzy (but a good lawyer will help to clear away the fuzz). It’s more fuzzy when everybody has a 19 in front of letter. Don’t forget there are also merchandising and touring divisions in the 19 family.

A few facts:
1) I don’t know what the deal is with 19M “dropping” Jordin.
2) Promo is good (but make sure the promo quality is good)
3) Record labels are very creative when doing accounting
4) Labels/Managers responsibilities can be mixed and only those privy to the contracts really know what is going on (and sometimes, even they don’t)
5) There is no crime in having a good promo team.
6) Fan wars are dumb.
7) I’m not an expert, so don’t make any financial decisions based on this post (get a lawyer/manager)

Bahahaha. Thanks for the info, Kirsten, as well as the good advice (get a good lawyer, but not one from 19L, got it!)

Also, I still have no idea why 19M “dropped” Jordin after all this informative speculation and learning about RCA’s spendthrift reputation, since Jordin isn’t on RCA. But, back on topic (and more speculation): maybe frugal Jive was so savvy when cutting their deal with Jordin that they’re the only ones making money off her single and record success, and she’s not making any/enough money for her management?

19L. I really laughed at that too.

MJ: I know that Jordin did well on Tatoo but I think that was more A.I. winner/fan driven. However, I know a lot of people myself who really liked No Air and that Chris Brown duet. I still stand that this single made it possible for her to go platinum. Nobody liked “This is my Now” some people liked Tatoo (primarily tweens/teens and A.I. fans) but non-Idol fans loved “No Air.” No Air is the song that made the difference.

I would have not bought “This is my Now” nor “Tatoo,” but I would have bought “No Air.” I know people who never watched A.I. bought No Air. No Air pushed her away from the A.I. tag.

I thought Jordin was talented but I found her voice too sugary sweet for my taste something I might expect to hear on Radio Disney. That is where I felt she might do best. I still think that’s her market. I am surprised that she did as well as she did because she sure had a slow start but Jive stuck with her and she went platinum.